Jump to content


Photo

Sharing Some New Learning


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Kerry Gordon

Kerry Gordon

    <3 SDP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts
  • Lenses:Rokinon 12mm f/2
    Fujinon 14mm f/2.8
    Fujinon 35 mm f/2
    Fujinon 18-135mm
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Fujifilm Xt-1

Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:52 PM

I had a great learning experience this week and I thought I’d risk being long winded and share it with you all.  I recently posted a photograph that I called Red Sky at Night and I was pretty well pleased with it.  I’ve recently been working with luminosity masking and my main source of inspiration has been the tutorials of Sean Bagshaw who is a fine photographer and wonderful teacher.  I had a few technical questions that I wanted to ask him and I have found in the past that he is very much available to help out where he can.  But, then at the last minute, I decided I would send along the Red Sky photograph and see if he would give me feedback on that.  He got back to me right away and his response was very insightful and you can see the results when you compare the photos below.  While what he said was in reference to my image in particular it certainly applies to any image and well worth considering when processing.

 

His main advice to me regarding this or any photograph is to be very aware of tonal balancing in the transition zones.  This is particularly important where there is high dynamic range.  In my photograph the transition zones are primarily where the horizon meets the sky.  If the tonal balancing is off it will have a jarring effect on the eye of the viewer even if he or she isn’t conscious of why.  So, for example, in my photograph, given the level and angle of light in the sky, the foreground was unnaturally bright.  Sean’s point was, it doesn’t feel right and once he pointed it out I had to admit that it didn’t.  His suggestion was the I lower the brightness slightly but up the contrast considerably (increasing the contrast automatically darkens while retaining detail in the shadows so that is a good strategy in this case.)  He also recommended that I bring up the brightness along the horizon and feather it up into the sky so that the highlighted clouds aren’t affected.  These were two very easy things to do and while they certainly weren’t earth shattering changes I think the difference is striking.  Through tonal balancing in this way the image seems much more natural and actually has a lot more pop without becoming garish or surreal.

 

I was really thrilled to get that kind of personalized input from a great teacher and I thought I’d pass it on.

 

Attached File  Red-Sky-at-Night.jpg   872.36KB   0 downloads

Attached File  Red-Sky-at-Night-TB.jpg   868.14KB   0 downloads


  • elcab18 likes this

#2 MarkM

MarkM

    <3 SDP

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • LocationOrange County, California
  • Lenses:AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR
    AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8E ED VR
    AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8E FL ED VR
    AF-S Nikkor 200-500mm f.5.6E ED VR
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Nikon D500
    Nikon D750
    Sony RX100 M4

Posted 02 December 2017 - 05:20 PM

Hi Kerry
It's great that you've established that relationship. With the comparison it is really clear how bright the green foreground is in the first, and how the second is less bright but way more natural looking. I like the 2nd re-work a lot.
So interesting to hear your story.
Thanks

#3 geedee

geedee

    Dedicated SDP Member

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,530 posts
  • Lenses:Nikon 16-35 VR f4 50mm f1.4 70-200 VR II f2.8 x2 converter
    18-70 f3.5-4.5DX (kit for D70s)
    Tamron 150-600 f5-6.3
    Cannon 50mm f1.8
  • Flashes:Nikon SB 910
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Cannon AE1
    Nikon D70S D800

Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:18 AM

Interesting Kerry...... Is the desired outcome of the learning process to have less pop and more of a natural look...hmm..? (-:

 

I do appreciate that there is room for wide ranging opinion in photography from attempts at truly accurate reproduction through to the use of artistic licence using the natural plus varying measures of PP to express ones self via the medium,  all of which can provide a great degree of interest and of course pleasure, be that catching a kingfisher in action as clean and accurately as possible or creating a perfect dawn by whatever means PP processes can bring to hand.. Both options can indeed create very pleasing images and in the end I suspect that is all which really matters..? 

 

I suspect where it can become complex is when photography is used to "tell lies" for one reason or another, which I suspect is nothing new...? 



#4 Kerry Gordon

Kerry Gordon

    <3 SDP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts
  • Lenses:Rokinon 12mm f/2
    Fujinon 14mm f/2.8
    Fujinon 35 mm f/2
    Fujinon 18-135mm
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Fujifilm Xt-1

Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:01 AM

Interesting Kerry...... Is the desired outcome of the learning process to have less pop and more of a natural look...hmm..? (-:

 

I do appreciate that there is room for wide ranging opinion in photography from attempts at truly accurate reproduction through to the use of artistic licence using the natural plus varying measures of PP to express ones self via the medium,  all of which can provide a great degree of interest and of course pleasure, be that catching a kingfisher in action as clean and accurately as possible or creating a perfect dawn by whatever means PP processes can bring to hand.. Both options can indeed create very pleasing images and in the end I suspect that is all which really matters..? 

 

I suspect where it can become complex is when photography is used to "tell lies" for one reason or another, which I suspect is nothing new...? 

Well, we can go on and on about what is possible.  The question for me is what is my vision.  At this point I would like to be able to give my images a natural feel.  I mean, in my view, there is no such thing as an accurate reproduction.  As soon as we pick up our camera we are interpreting.  The only question is what is the mood or the feel that I want to impart.  And then, what are the means I have both through the actual capture of the image and through post processing of actualizing my vision for the image.  One of the struggles I have when capturing images is that, at this point, I'm still too involved with my camera, which separates me, to a certain extent, from the experience.  My hope would be that through continued practice and experience, I'll be able to be less absorbed in operating my camera and more connected to what I'm experiencing. So that's about "taking" the picture.   But what Sean Bagshaw was leading me to was not how my image should look but what I need to be considering as I work with it in post.  There are many, many aesthetic choices and directions I can take an image but to me, a successful outcome has to do with how conscious I am of those choices.  Being more conscious of tonal balance, for example, regardless of where I want to go with it, will doubtlessly make a positive difference in actualizing my vision for the image.  In answer to your first question - in this case I believe that the revised edition has more pop while at the same time retaining a more natural look.



#5 Roderick

Roderick

    Master Photographer

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,008 posts
  • LocationDublin, Ireland
  • Lenses:Centon 500mm f8.0 Mirror (!)
    Sigma 24-105 f4 DG OS HSM A
    Tamron 150-600mm f5-6.3
    Samyang 14mm f2.8 manual
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Nikon D750
    Sony NEX-6

Posted 04 December 2017 - 04:46 AM

That's very interesting, Kerry.

I had no appreciation of such concepts until you posted this.  Fascinating.

The struggle to make a photograph that truthfully represents the original scene is challenging.

The digital file saved by the camera is not some absolutely objective truth that mirrors reality.

It's a view - a point of view, and an approximation.  It's no more a finished product that is a lump of marble a finished statue.

I really have to improve my understanding of photography :)

I'm off the Sean Bagshaw's site to begin.



#6 David Pavlich

David Pavlich

    Mr Astrophotography!

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,399 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, MB, Canada
  • Lenses:Canon 70-200 f2.8 II, Canon 16-35 f4L IS, Tamron 35mm f1.8, Sigma 100-400 f5/6.3
  • Flashes:Yongnuo 560, 565 and 568.
  • Camera Body or Bodies:5D MkIII,

Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:20 AM

When it comes to post processing, Ansel Adams was among the best ever.  He'd spend hours in the dark room dodging and burning to render his vision of the scene.  We do the same here with a computer.  Some like it and some don't.  As Kerry said, it's the photographer's vision.

 

I have a friend in Scotland named Jenny Cameron.  Some of you may have seen her landscape work on the SDP FB page.  She doesn't post there anymore because of criticism from a couple of members that bordered on rude, but her stuff is into the fine art category.  Lots of blurring and light manipulation, but the end product is stunning to me, but to others, it's too much.  But I like aggressive post processing.  After all, I went to the Serge Ramelli School of Processing Restraint. :D :D :D

 

David


  • PeterPP likes this

'When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'

 


#7 Roderick

Roderick

    Master Photographer

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,008 posts
  • LocationDublin, Ireland
  • Lenses:Centon 500mm f8.0 Mirror (!)
    Sigma 24-105 f4 DG OS HSM A
    Tamron 150-600mm f5-6.3
    Samyang 14mm f2.8 manual
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Nikon D750
    Sony NEX-6

Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

Is that the same Serge Ramelli who testified to the senate committee on un-American activities ????!!!

I'll just check with Google....

Holy god!!!!!

The man is out of control !!!! :D



#8 Kerry Gordon

Kerry Gordon

    <3 SDP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts
  • Lenses:Rokinon 12mm f/2
    Fujinon 14mm f/2.8
    Fujinon 35 mm f/2
    Fujinon 18-135mm
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Fujifilm Xt-1

Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:40 AM

When it comes to post processing, Ansel Adams was among the best ever.  He'd spend hours in the dark room dodging and burning to render his vision of the scene.  We do the same here with a computer.  Some like it and some don't.  As Kerry said, it's the photographer's vision.

 

I have a friend in Scotland named Jenny Cameron.  Some of you may have seen her landscape work on the SDP FB page.  She doesn't post there anymore because of criticism from a couple of members that bordered on rude, but her stuff is into the fine art category.  Lots of blurring and light manipulation, but the end product is stunning to me, but to others, it's too much.  But I like aggressive post processing.  After all, I went to the Serge Ramelli School of Processing Restraint. :D :D :D

 

David

Well, I had to go and take a look at Jenny Cameron's photography after that, didn't I?  I had a teacher who used to say, "Just because it isn't my cup of tea, doesn't mean it isn't good tea."  And I think that applies to my response to Jenny's photographs.  What I do admire, is that she clearly has a vision.  When I look at her photographs it is obvious that they are all by the same person and that she has a way of seeing the world that is specific to who she is.  I think a person's art can only really judged by their intent.  There is no point, after all, in comparing Picasso with Rembrandt.  Someone like Jenny Cameron clearly has an intention, which she is exploring and for that she certainly has my respect.



#9 David Pavlich

David Pavlich

    Mr Astrophotography!

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,399 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, MB, Canada
  • Lenses:Canon 70-200 f2.8 II, Canon 16-35 f4L IS, Tamron 35mm f1.8, Sigma 100-400 f5/6.3
  • Flashes:Yongnuo 560, 565 and 568.
  • Camera Body or Bodies:5D MkIII,

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:43 PM

Jenny never told me who the members are, just that the remarks got beyond CC.  I noticed one of her shots quite some time ago and asked her if she had thought about printing it.  She had never printed any of her shots.  Fast forward, and now she's had several of her shots featured in different publications.  Are her images for everyone?  Nope, just as my over the top gaudy HDR shots aren't.  But I don't process the way I do to please everyone.  The HDR stuff has been fairly successful for me as far as selling prints goes.  The people that buy them aren't purists or pixel peepers, they just like the fact that it's a photograph, but it's different.

 

David


'When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'

 


#10 rdb images

rdb images

    Super Geek

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • LocationWarminster, PA USA
  • Lenses:AF-S DX NIKKOR 16-80mm f/2.8-4E ED VR
    AF-S VR Micro-NIKKOR 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED
  • Flashes:None, but getting one soon.
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Nikon D7100

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:52 PM

... I had a teacher who used to say, "Just because it isn't my cup of tea, doesn't mean it isn't good tea."

 

I'm willing to bet that teacher said that before the age of 'social' media. Today it is "If you don't agree with me, you are wrong (and a *#&@head.)" That is why I ignore Facebook, etc. This forum is a breath of fresh air. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. If so, thank goodness!

 

I have tried to watch a few of Serge's videos and he makes me jumpy. Had to turn him off :lol:.

 

Bob



#11 John W

John W

    Master Photographer

  • Stunners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,035 posts
  • LocationMaryland - Eastern Shore
  • Lenses:Nikon 200-500 5.6
    Nikon 16-80 2.8-4
    Nikon 500mm f4E FL
    Nikon 50mm f1.8
    Nikon 1.4III extender
  • Camera Body or Bodies:Nikon D500
    Vangurad Actus Plus 283AT Tripod
    Feisol CT-3371 Rapid tripod
    Induro Git 404L series tripod
    Gitzo GM 4552L Monopod
    Really Right Stuff BH-55 Ball Head
    Wimberley WH-200
    Mongoose 3.6 Gimbal
    Induro GHB - 1 Gimbal

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

Really interesting. Definitely prefer the second image. TFS






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users