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Question About Editing Software.


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#1 Vinny

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:24 AM

Putting it here as it is a general question.
 

With all the talking of non destructive editing lately in the ads for software - how important is it? From the couple of pieces that I've tried and own - ON1 seems to be able to do most things non destructively even in layers with smart layers. Affinity Photo can also be non destructive with certain filters/layers. ACDSee is non destructive to a certain point but a lot of their layer adjustments are destructive. I haven't used recent Adobe software so I won't speak about what I have there.
 
Should a piece of software be non destructive to a certain point (say raw developing) but any other adjustments can be destructive because the initial photo adjustments are still there and can be reset? Is total non destructive editing just hype?
 
I've started thinking about this since I have been using different software and it seems every program has loyal users that LOVE the program. Some of them it seems like a lot of the editing is destructive and it doesn't seem to matter to the users.
 
I'm going to be posting this in a couple of places to get as many opinions as possible just in case you run into it again.
 
Thanks for your input!

 



#2 Roderick

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

Hello Vinny.

I'd say that a consistently non-destructive editor would be preferable.  The likes of Lightroom and Capture1 offer that while with Photoshop I always have to be on my guard, particularly when cropping an image.   You have to remember to always be editing a copied layer of the original file.  If you inadvertently do a save after an edit on the original in PS, then you're screwed, - unless you still have the original photo on your memory card.

The workflow in PS requires that you keep concentration: masking, copying layers, copying layer stacks and flattening them, and of course, renaming the layers so you can work out what the hell you were supposed to be doing when you take a break for an hour and then come back to your work.... :rolleyes:

.PSD files can also get very large - upwards of a gig.

Having said that, the power of Photoshop would be hard to replicate in any other software that's out there.


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#3 Vinny

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:30 AM

Roderick, thanks for your input!

 

I had been using ON1 Photo RAW and it is an amazing editor when it works; right now it is a little buggy on my computer but I have my fingers crossed they will eventually straighten it out. (I have stopped using it because of this). Think of it as a LR/PS cross with limited abilities in the PS arena. It can be non destructive even in layers (I assume new versions of PS can as well). ACDSee is similar in it's non destructive nature but not quite as much as ON1; I trialed it because of my not using ON1 and I was somewhat impressed with it - I like ON1 a little better. I have Affinity Photo as my PS alternative goto but based on the video on sharpening you posted in another thread it is not really as "powerful" as PS - it could not do the multiple step sharpening that was being done - at least I couldn't get it to do it (maybe my lack of knowledge/skill!).

I'm asking because I'm thinking that I am going a little overboard on the whole non destructive thing ... 



#4 Roderick

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:21 AM

I ended up in the PS/LR camp because of a requirement of my job - previously I'd monkeyed about with PaintshopPro (it now is owned by Corel I think, and called something else).

I imagine that the "sensible" approach would be to use the tool or tools that let you achieve the result you want, rather that adapting your workflow to the regime of a particular software house, but...

life isn't always like that is it ? :rolleyes:

Non destructive photo editing is an attractive option for me - the ability to back out of an editing sequence step by step for one thing is great.

With the availability of cheap disk storage, having a LOT of different versions of each picture you're editing is not so awkward, but you're still left with the pain of trying to manage all those similar pictures with bizarre names... :huh: 

I don't think there's one single application that does everything I need so like you I use one ap for managing files, another for quick browsing, another for noise reduction....

Do a google for "lightroom alternatives" any you'll see.

Tony recently did a video on Lightroom Mobile running on a Mac tablet thing and he thought it was the bees knees.



#5 TknoGeek

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:41 AM

Putting it here as it is a general question.

With all the talking of non destructive editing lately in the ads for software - how important is it? From the couple of pieces that I've tried and own - ON1 seems to be able to do most things non destructively even in layers with smart layers. Affinity Photo can also be non destructive with certain filters/layers. ACDSee is non destructive to a certain point but a lot of their layer adjustments are destructive. I haven't used recent Adobe software so I won't speak about what I have there.

Should a piece of software be non destructive to a certain point (say raw developing) but any other adjustments can be destructive because the initial photo adjustments are still there and can be reset? Is total non destructive editing just hype?

I've started thinking about this since I have been using different software and it seems every program has loyal users that LOVE the program. Some of them it seems like a lot of the editing is destructive and it doesn't seem to matter to the users.

I'm going to be posting this in a couple of places to get as many opinions as possible just in case you run into it again.


Roderick covered much of my opinion, as well.

For me, I want the ability to adjust edits at a later point in time. A frequent scenario for me is I see/learn a new editing technique that I think would work great on an old photo. With non-destructive editing in place, I can easily grab the original capture from an old sequence of edits and play with the new technique. I also want the ability to back out a series of edits to tweak the settings (something I regularly do in Photoshop using layers and SmartObjects).

If you want entertainment, take a look at user reviews from the perspective of psychology or even zoology. Behavior patterns become much more...amusing. People who have spent money - especially if that sum is considered very significant to they buyer - want validation that they have invested wisely. They will focus on all the positives of the product while downplaying negatives (even if those negatives are routinely encountered). It's relatively rare for user reviews to be balanced and clearly bound the review by type of use case or set of scenarios where a given tool excels and falls short.

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#6 Vinny

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 07:42 AM

Hey Roderick & TknoGeek,

 

Sorry for replying so late, I was on vacation and wasn't able to log in with my phone!

 

Thanks for the replies ... I like the idea of being able to re edit a photo myself. I believe I am evolving as a post processor (probably we all are) and look at some of my earlier photos and think I need to redo the edits. Using ON1, it is a simple matter of hitting "reset" and everything before layers goes away and my original raw file is there untouched along with a PSD if I went into layers which can be editable if I made the layers smart ones. I don't do much layer work so an all around editor works for me and when I do layer work the ON1 program has been mostly more than enough. Unfortunately the new program has been less than stellar so I started to look for another editor came across 2 others that I like but one is mostly destructive in layers and the other is in beta and incomplete.

 

I agree that people need validation, I guess in certain areas I'm not hooked into any one thing (but do wonder why anyone would buy anything but a Nikon ;) JK ) .  I was thinking my own thought process was off and I was overthinking it.

 

Thanks again!



#7 Roderick

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

;)

Eh,,,,

Fightin' words, Vinny.

I ran across a great bloke who does PS training - lookup up pixelimperfect on the youtoobs, he's as good as Phlearn IMO.

He shows how adjustment layers can remove almost all the "destructive editing" from PS (almost)....

But its a huge financial investment to go the PS route, compared to other softwares.






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