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Histogram Info - You Tube


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#1 John W

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:29 PM

Worth watching:

Tony -

Steve - 



#2 grimlock361

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:31 AM

Warning!  Crazy talk ahead!

 

I just can't get into histograms as I just don't see the benefit.  Literally.  Many claim you can look at a histogram and see those spikes to the right and tell when a particular image is clipping.  However, every histogram is different for each specific photo.  For example, in strong backlight when exposure is adjusted for the subject and the background overexposed (possibly clipped) do we look at the histogram seeing all those peaks to the right and delete the photo?  So the school of thought is to compare it to the photo....wait.....we are back to looking at the photo again.  I thought all the Jedi masters say ignore the photo and look at the histogram or is that only when you can't see the screen from the sun.  Wait!....Isn't the histogram on that same screen that can't be seen because of the sun?  Ok, go inside, put your camera under your shirt.....????.....Hey, I can see the photo now so what do I need the histogram for?   Ok, I remember now!  My screen is not calibrated hence the histogram is more trustworthy.....BUT......each histogram is specific to each photo and there is no one "universal" reading to guarantee correct exposure without direct correlation and comparison to the photo.  Oh snap!  That photo correlation/comparison thing is being done on the same untrustworthy evil screen that we are told to avoid use of in the first place. :wacko:  I'm sorry but I think I am the only idiot on the planet that don't get them and find depending on a histogram first and not your common sense is like driving your car using the GPS without actually looking at the road.  Yes, there are Cajuns and Rednecks alike where I am from who actually do this "the road is there....its just overgrown....keep driving" :rolleyes:


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#3 geedee

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:25 AM

WARNING......You have definite Luddite tendencies Grimlock...(-:



#4 Roderick

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:40 AM

Well ranted, indeed ! ;)

A picture that contains a lot of dark areas will  have most of its histogram data over on the left of the graph. A picture with a lot of brights will have the histogram graph over on the right.  makes sense.

 

I suppose a lot of the histogram recommendations from Tony and others are aimed at people like me, towards the lower end of the food chain, to get us to have a black and a white point at least in our pictures.

 

It wouldn't always apply to photos that are deliberately over exposed for example. or pictures of the direct sun.

 

WRT trying to read the hysto in direct sunlight, I would think some form of monk's habit would be in order, or a cape like the one's the Nazgul wear. :ph34r:

 

Here's a like to Arthur Morris's take on hystograms

 



#5 grimlock361

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:12 AM

The lying histogram? He so makes my point for me.
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#6 John W

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:45 AM

I find it helps me expose to the right without clipping. My experience is that there is no penalty for lowering exposure in post but raising introduces noise. Especially with a bird like a Bald Eagle or an Osprey with white and dark feathers the exposure is usually a compromise. If I expose correctly for the dark feathers the whites are clipped. The histogram helps me get as much information as possible on the sensor without losing anything.

#7 David Pavlich

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 08:55 AM

I use the histogram, but for general exposure only.  I don't get into the minutia of trying to analyze every detail.  Now, if you're a long exposure astrophotographer, the histogram is priceless.  Data from deep space, long exposure photography is almost all encased in a very small spike to the far left.  Using levels and curves, you have to coax the data out.  It's called "stretching".  Watching how the historgam reacts is critical to get the most out of an image.

 

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#8 Roderick

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:24 AM

histogram..... :huh: 



#9 Kerry Gordon

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:16 PM

Nice piece by Morris (even though it makes my head hurt.)  Thanks for that Rod.



#10 rospondek

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:49 PM

I thought all the Jedi masters say ignore the photo and look at the histogram or is that only when you can't see the screen from the sun.  Wait!....Isn't the histogram on that same screen that can't be seen because of the sun?

 

Just one question. Did you tried? It is of course on the same screen but it is a difference in trying to see all shades of blue on this LCD and see pure white vs black diagram.

So yes, in the hard sun histogram is the only thing that can tell you if the settings are not totally wrong.

 

Histogram should be your help when taking RAW photos. If you know what you're shooting you will know when histogram is too dark or too bright. Just like that.

Today I took shots of small lizards under the summer sun. I saw nothing on the screen besides that white histogram on black background. Thanks to it I could change my settings to better one. Without it I had to find dark place to check the photo and go back to the place where lizard would be obviously long gone.

 

With JPG it is a whole different story...



#11 grimlock361

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 07:18 PM

The problem lies in the belief that it always refelects accurate exposure for your particular photo. The general and wrong consensus on the web is that it is a replacement and superior to looking at the screen. While it dose have some value it is only trully accurate when shooting a perfectly, evenly lit scene. Huge peaks to the right or left ONLY indicate a problem when it is not what you are shooting for. Hence, you have to consider what you are shooting AND look at the screen. Putting singular and complete faith in a histogram is like always trusing auto mode because that is EXACTLY what auto mode does in attempting to give the user that "good even exposure". How many times have you had to compensate for very dark or white subjects? If shooting for a "good histogram" you image is going to be clipped because it does not take into consideration what you find important in a photo. Scenes with any type of dramatic and varied lighting make for a very complex histogram reading making the tool of little value.  For these reasons I find it of very limited use and not worth the button press to bring it up. However, I never thought to check it with long exposures. Thaks David as I will certainly give it a try.


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#12 geedee

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 06:06 AM

Can I start by first admitting that I have not taken the time to try to understand but the very basics of the histogram in that if the body of the graph is too much to one side than the other the overall image is either identified as being bright or dark in terms of it`s overall content... sure there is far more to the graph than that...BUT..?

 

Is a histogram to be identified as other than the TOOL which it seems to be...????  

 

Is the histogram to be considered the final arbitrator as to the value of ANY image..?

 

In friendly discussion is it wise to slip into the use of language that seems somewhat ..err..fundamentalist..to make a point.. hmm..? 

 

From a point of minimal understanding on the usage of a histogram, I might have expected that it may be possible for the point of focus in a specific image to be that which the preference of decisions on exposure settings may be selected as a priority over all else, and thus a histogram based upon the entire scene captured at the time may be of minimal use...?  

 

In a landscape and other types of photography I suspect that the histogram may have be more useful....?

 

It seems a histogram has it`s uses both on location and on the desktop, given it`s availability and capability both in-camera and in PP..? 

 

I have seen those who would use a hammer rather than a screwdriver, and also seen some great work done by the use of either or both, I suspect the end product can be that on which choices made during the construction process will eventually be judged...? (-:



#13 grimlock361

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:59 AM

I know I sound a bit like a whacko fundamentalist on the subject and it was certainly not my intent to offend but my opinions are voiced against some rather fundamentalist ideas IMO. I was not speaking specifically to anybody here and it's certainly not a direct reply to Tony's video but just opinions to histograms in general.

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#14 geedee

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:31 AM

Grimlock, all of your contributions are much valued by me and no doubt many others here, I learn much from you. Many thanks for taking the time to be considerate, much appreciated.



#15 Roderick

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 02:44 AM

Whacko ??  I think not.  There are many people at my place of work who ask me to "install the Internet" on their computers.  Now, they are seriously whacko.

And when you try to explain it to them they get all shirty and give you the " I'm not an idiot speech". :mellow:

WRT histograms, I say its one of a number of aids to help the photographer realise his/her intentions.






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