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#1 P Bender

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 02:34 PM

I recently made some photo's of a wedding for the mother of the groom. Out of 500+ photo's I processed about 20 that I thought were decent pictures. Of these shots several were sent to the bride and groom, and mother of the bride. The bride decided to have Wal-Mart print some of my photo without asking my for permission to do so. Wal-mart declined to print these images, because of my copyright on the image. I am willing to send her prints, but do not feel it is acceptable to use my shots without at least asking. Thoughts?

 

This was taken with my 28-300mm telephoto zoom

ISO 400

53 mm focal length

f 8.0

1/50 second

 

I was just a guest shooting some shots from behind the paid photographer. I am thinking that she maybe preferred free shots, better than paying for them.

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#2 JestePhotography

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 03:17 PM

Yeah give them smalllllllllll jpegs like 900 pixels on the long edge to see which ones they like. Sell them the full res images after...

#3 geedee

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 03:48 PM

I think I relayed my experience of doing something similar to that which you got involved in though in my case I had no copyright issues as I was happy to take the pics and after some editing I created a disk and handed it to the groom to do with as he pleased, I suspect that the official photographer may have lost out as a result of my actions as I never saw or heard of the official photographers pictures.... I felt really bad about the situation as wedding photographers have to deal with a lot without being undermined..... Just my two cents. 



#4 David Pavlich

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 09:37 PM

In the states, copyright is implied to the person that takes the picture.  The best thing to do has been suggested; the image that you send to the bride should be low res only.  Adding your logo/copyright is a good thing, but not necessary to prove copyright.  After all, a lot of people know how to use Photoshop and can simply remove your logo.

 

My son is a wedding photographer.  When he sells a "package" the images suitable for print are included in the package.  However, they have printing rights for one year only.  After that, and this is contractual, they have to purchase a fresh set of printing rights.  Now, because of the way our court system works, this sort of monetary "damage" is usually not worth the cost to take it to court.  There are photography groups working on changing the laws so that copyright infringement can be settled in small claims court.  In that case, the cost is relatively small, so it becomes a worth while effort to be made whole for monetary damage.  But this isn't law yet.

 

David


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#5 ebit

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:16 PM

How exactly did you "copyright" them? watermark? metadata?

 

I have the same issues as well of my photos going to print without my permission



#6 P Bender

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:57 PM

How exactly did you "copyright" them? watermark? metadata?
 
I have the same issues as well of my photos going to print without my permission


Both the Metadata and watermark. I don't think most printing places dig into the Metadata, but the visible watermark is harder to ignore. I am sure Wal-Mart has been sued, and lost over copyright infringement, so they are more careful. Every other printer may not be as careful. Like David stated above, legal suits are costly, and don't justify the expense of hiring an attorney.

Edit, how did you find out that someone had used you photos without your permission?
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#7 PeterPP

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:05 PM

In the USA/Canada at least, images are copyrighted as soon as you press the shutter button, unless you are doing WFH.

 

A watermark or exif data on the images is probably what caused walmart to kick out, the minilab'ers have gotten nailed hard in the past for printing copyright images without permission,

 

in the USA you can copyright "boatloads" of images at a time for a fee by sending a disk an the needed forms to the copyright office.

In Canada it is weird, you can do a copyright but they don't accept anything to show what exactly you are trying to copyright.. 

 

petapixed wrote up a nice article on how to go about doing it

http://petapixel.com...pyright-office/


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#8 ebit

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 05:23 PM

I sent pix to the bride as she requested and told her not to send to others unless they have my authorization (these pix weren't watermarked).  a few days later I start seeing my pictures posted... on other people's (presumably her friends, relatives, etc) social media..  I just let it go.. partly because I was relatively new to photography and the pictures aren't my best work anyways.



#9 P Bender

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 05:52 PM

I sent pix to the bride as she requested and told her not to send to others unless they have my authorization (these pix weren't watermarked).  a few days later I start seeing my pictures posted... on other people's (presumably her friends, relatives, etc) social media..  I just let it go.. partly because I was relatively new to photography and the pictures aren't my best work anyways.


If that had happened to me I would be extremely pissed!
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#10 ebit

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 12:57 PM

hah I'm pretty easy going and chill.  I think my wife was more bothered by it and insisted I start watermarking photos.  I still don't watermark my photos to this date but am very cautious about who I send pictures to now.  I don't think watermarks are very effective unless you make it obtrusive which will then detract from your photos. 

 

If I have any inkling whatsoever that the bride or groom will use my pictures inappropriately, I won't send.  I might just post teaser pix on my facebook and tag them.

 

I think what was worse was some of my pix I've seen in other social media accounts were edited (cheesy filters, heavy vignette) and no photo credit or anything.



#11 PeterPP

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 09:30 AM

Once you have released image files you have pretty much lost control of what happens with them.

That includes posting them to any site, once posted there is no protection that actually works, they will migrate to other sites if people decide they want them.

 

For weddings you mainly sell prints as the product, if you also sell the high rez files you need to get all your cash up front with the sale.

Once they have the files you have no control over what happens and no future sales potentials.

 

Hence the recommendation to only post/release very low rez files.

Watermarks if unobtrusive either are cut off, cloned out or just plain ignored. And if large and obtrusive ruin the image for viewing.

 

I basically no longer worry about small rez images they can make for good promotion, and have very little value any more with the glut of images available either free or for a few cents now.  

Thanks to the commoditization of photograph by microstock photography in many cases has become a high volume low value game.


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#12 ebit

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 10:53 AM

what would you consider low rez?  I typically send 1800x1200 (approx. 2mp) photos. 



#13 P Bender

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 11:22 AM

what would you consider low rez?  I typically send 1800x1200 (approx. 2mp) photos.


Is typically print some decent pictures from slightly bigger the what your posting. Much less resolution before the cheap newlyweds find it unexceptable to look at one their nightstands.
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#14 PeterPP

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 01:09 PM

Maybe 500*750px at 72dpi that displays around a 7*10" on a monitor

and prints as a 3*4 at around 180ppi, most minilab printers run at 240ppi.

 

Problem is with some photoshop actions that can be upsized rather easily and still make 4*6 and 5*7 prints some people will find OK because they don't care about quality.

 

The wonderful world of image theft because people place little to no value on photography anymore, and don't understand coping an image is not OK.


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#15 ebit

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 04:22 PM

glad I don't do this for a living or I'd be constantly fighting a battle that I can't win



#16 Shaun Stanich

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:32 AM

Not a lot you can do but waste time. I wouldn't pursue anything since you were shooting for free. Next time put a watermark on them that way you get exposure if they get shared.


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